Meeting #1: poll for the date

@southerntofu and I are trying to organize a meeting to agree on the direction to take for JoinJabber. We invite everybody who feels concerned about the project and would like to have a say.

Here is a pad with the proposed agenda: Instance Etherpad Publique de La Quadrature Du Net
(Current state copied in a reply below, will update when changed)

Don’t hesitate to edit it.

Schedule (input required)

Please indicate a date you’re available at, for the meeting. Also indicate a time (or period) of the day in reply if possible.

Meeting date
  • 2021-02-04
  • 2021-02-05
  • 2021-02-06
  • 2021-02-07
  • 2021-02-08
  • 2021-02-09
  • 2021-02-10

0 voters

Currently proposed agenda.

JoinJabber meeting X/XX/2021

This pad is here to organize the first JoinJabber meeting, which will take place on X/XX/2021. The meeting will be held in meeting@joinjabber.org.

How it works

All items proposed here are just ideas until they are approved by the community (during the meeting). Anyone is free to add proposals. If you want to rephrase an existing proposal, please add it right under the original proposal, like this:

  • JoinJabber should be a welcoming community

  • → JoinJabber should be a welcoming place dedicated to users of the Jabber network, and centered on user-experience

[ ] and [x] are Markdown syntax for checklists. These are used for proposals to vote upon. When a proposal is adopted, it is marked [x]. When a consensus is not reached, votes are detailed under the proposal. Checklists are also used for agenda items so a person joining the meeting may figure out what point is currently being discussed.

Agenda

  • [ ] Goals for the JoinJabber project
  • [ ] Shared infrastructure: past and future
  • [ ] Communication
  • [ ] joinjabber.org or joinxmpp.org?
  • [ ] Useful resources
  • [ ] ADD SOMETHING HERE

Points

Here we discuss individual points scheduled in the agenda.

Goals for the JoinJabber project

We are gathered today to form a new collective called JoinJabber. Some of the reasons we are here include:

  • information about the Jabber ecosystem is fragmented and often outdated, which is confusing for new users ; many service providers (hosting cooperatives) have to spend their precious resources on maintaining documentation for end-users

  • xmpp.org and the XMPP Standards Foundation (XSF) have a neutral position, which prevents them from recommending certain solutions and approaches

  • there is no community hub to help and guide new users and server operators when trouble arise, or to facilitate and encourage discussions between end-users, and client/server developers; existing communities like jdev and jusers are not widely-known

  • ADD YOUR CONCERNS HERE

For these reasons, we propose the following goals for the JoinJabber collective:

  • [ ] JoinJabber is a community hub, dedicated to the concerns of end-users of the Jabber federated network

  • [ ] JoinJabber promotes cultural diversity and internationalist struggles; we are for the abolition of borders and all kinds of human oppression; any language is welcome in the community, although each language have their own channels (forums, chats…)

  • [ ] Communication and decision-making within the JoinJabber collective takes place in English, and we encourage speakers of other languages to express their concerns via translations and/or a delegate of their choice

  • [ ] JoinJabber is an autonomous collective, which promotes empowerment of individuals and communities; every person is free to express desires and concerns during our meetings, and we have no formal membership

  • [ ] JoinJabber opposes toxic and oppressive behavior such as stalking, harrassment, and spamming; we will ban people harming our users and our community

  • [ ] JoinJabber is not involved in any form of commercial activity: we may raise donations for JoinJabber infrastructure, advertise existing fundraisers for solutions we recommend (clients, servers, and server operators), or take part in fundraisers for new features of interest to end users

  • [ ] JoinJabber promotes decentralized governance: we have no authority over any project, though we may choose to recommend or not certain projects depending on further-established criteria

  • [ ] JoinJabber promotes inter-project cooperation and would like to encourage adoption of modern standards focused on the needs of end-users

  • [ ] JoinJabber promotes decentralized Internet infrastructure: we do not want to become a big central server, but rather promote existing user-friendly servers and the selfhosting of new servers

  • [ ] JoinJabber provides services and infrastructures for collective projects around the Jabber ecosystem, but does not provide services to end-users (such as Jabber accounts)

  • [ ] JoinJabber provides support channels (instant chat and long-lived discussions) to help users of Jabber clients/servers; we do not want to replace existing support channels for specific projects, but would like to help lower their burden with simple matters; support is provided by volunteers on a best-effort basis

  • [ ] JoinJabber promotes privacy as a fundamental human right, and as a pillar of popular power and autonomy; we take part in evaluating privacy of the Jabber ecosystem, and proposing recommendations for implementers, for server operators, and for end-users; the use of a nickname is recommended (though not mandatory) to participate in the JoinJabber collective

  • [ ] JoinJabber studies user experience across the Jabber ecosystem, and collects end-user feedback; this feedback, aggregated from testimonies and field-studies (eg. during install parties) can be used to propose recommendations for implementers and server operators

  • [ ] JoinJabber promotes interoperability between Jabber and other free, decentralized networks; we can only stand up to the Internet giants if we are able to communicate across free solutions (such as IRC, Matrix, Fediverse…)

  • [ ] ADD YOUR PROPOSAL HERE

Shared infrastructure: past and future

Currently, our infrastructure is:

  • a website

  • a mailserver (for internal services like the forum)

  • a forum, which is some kind of mailing list as well (supports notifications and replies via email)

  • a Jabber/XMPP multi-user chat (MUC)

Do we want to setup more stuff?

  • weblate for translations?

  • websites for Jabber-related projects?

  • forums/mailinglists for other projects?

  • matterbridge (or equivalent) to bridge discussions across networks?

  • for jabber-related projects? (sure)

  • for other communities whose hosting providers don’t provide this service (YET) ?

  • chatbots hooked to upstream forges to receive updates in the chats

  • forging (eg. Gitea) ?

  • opening up the MUC for jabber-related projects?

Communication

announcement of joinjabber collective?

review of other articles? (on the forum maybe)?

joinjabber or joinxmpp?

  • Jabber is trademarked by Cisco and usually associated with the old xmpp of the pre 2010 times or worse some Cisco corporate inhouse chat people dumped for Slack

  • XMPP has a uphill battle against tech people associating it with bad “Jabber” experiences in the past. Hence modern XMPP should distance itself as much as possible from the old Jabber

  • joinjabber.org should redirect to joinxmpp.org not the other way around like it is now

  • joinxmpp.org is fine for what it is i.e. sharing a link that explains modern xmpp and its clients, actual end-user adoption is driven by client and server recommendations, not so much the protocol.

Useful resources

What external resources do we want to advertise on our website?

Questions and answers

Whatever was not scheduled in the agenda can be asked/commented here.